fair enough, what you are saying is quiet right, originally patreon was indeed used a platform to gather support money and such and not a paywall.
But at the same time some of this artist maybe poor people that need some sort of stable income and sadly commision sometime is not enough.
But in all fairness the patron in patreon actually paying money each month for the artist, so of course under the normal rule of bussiness world : people that are paying need to be given special treatment to stay and continue donating.
After all if the paying patron and the public is just getting the same stuff with no bonus or special stuff for the patron, people will just went like this "what is the point to donate if i dont get a bonus or anything".
but of course for some people that understand donation system, they do it out of compassion.
but let's just be blunt people most of the time need incentive/motivation to donate to someone else.
So is that mean exclusive stuff is wrong thing to do? i'm not saying i'm justifying 100% paywall either.
what i mean is that public will get their own share while the patron get extra stuff,
is using such method is wrong?
once again this is just my opinion and i'm not one to judge considering i'm also a pirate in here.
i'm saying this just because of curiosty and want to see some different opinion is all
and i once again apologize if i sound rude and i am not justifying the artist that goes crazy paywall and DRM
i'm just neutral is all
I'm glad a number of artists have moved away from doing commissions because how heavily they limited their creative output because they were too busy catering the whims of a few to create much else. I much rather pay $5 a month to get a lot of content I want then pay $100+ for one picture or just hope those who paid them asked for something interesting.
My problem is artists either act like a business only when it suits them or take on terrible business practices. So you get terrible communication, ghosting, harsh responses to any type of criticism, and a shallow community. To elaborate on that last part by community I'm not talking about people or request or commission stuff.
I'm talking about spreading, talking about, and refining different ideas around aesthetics. Artists retreat so far into their walled gardens that their public presence disappears to the point it may seem like they just stopped.
Why I wouldn't mind spreading the works of the artists listed in this thread even though I'm not into them just as a big fuck you to people like them I'm unwilling to pay money out of principle to these type of fucks to do so.
true i guess, what you say about commision it really is either you have some money to spare or someone else commision something you are also into.
i guess you're not wrong about that one, a lot of artist that sometime change to bad personality and such when they already amass some audiences.
for bad bussines practice i can't say much i guess the problem is, the artist is the one who runs the show. Although i admit it sometimes i hate it when artist sometime pull some crazy stunt DRM.
true that some artist just seems drops from the face of earth or something.
i guess another question is what kind of bussiness practice that should be used by artist then in platform like patreon?
i mean this website alone can pirate a lot of stuff beyond imagination sometimes, and because of that a lot of people mindset went like this "why should i pay if i can get stuff free from this website"
and if there is some leaker how artist should dealt with it then? i mean i heard some crazy stuff from other thread where there is artist that doxxing leaker and even as far shaming the leaker by calling the parents(i don't know if this is true or not) and of course if that is actually true that would be some crazy, i mean no need to destroy the leakers life
and how about balance between the public content and the exclusive content? after all public still need to get stuff for artist publicity and for new potentialy patron and exclusive content for those who actually donate
When it comes to business practices what is best for me may not be the best for an artist if they want to maximize profit. For example I hate creators putting their monthly content on gumroad to double dip (to see all their content you have to pay for a sub and pay multiple times to get their older content since its separated by month) but its great for them.
Leakers are the cost of doing business in a mostly frictionless environment. I think their impact is overblown though I have no hard evidence because despite all the moaning about sites like this many artist seem to have little problem raking in cash. Also artists have several advantages they can exploit like the power of fandom to keep them afloat.
When it comes to the balance between public content exclusive I prefer the early access model where they release their exclusive content much later because at least for me it serves as a form of advertisement and is something to help you judge if subscribing to them is worth it.
Yea on YP this thread was the most violent txt war probably in the history of the site lol.
>Anyway, does anyone can list any of their known artists who did the so-called DRM methods?
You can be almost guaranteed that 8/10 artists do it. Because basically, as an artist, you'd be stupid NOT to do external/private distro. Word travels fast, so as soon as "Artist 1" discovers his art is being leaked, then discover that ALL he has to do to COMPLETELY stop the leaks, is just "private distro", then he's gonna tell "Artist 2", and "Artist 2" tells all the other artists in his circles, on and on until the only people still posting 100% directly are those that "don't want to get money", or those that "don't care about being pirated".
If I was a popular artist and wanted to milk people every month, you can bet I'd do the same!
I have an artist friend who spends hours every weekend and a couple of days during the week streaming for his patreons on Discord. He holds down a real life job too and does all this to make ends meet. He doesn't do commissions mostly because he hasn't got the time. His lowest tier is $5 a month and that's to see all his patreon exclusive art. He doesn't mind people who subscribe once then cancel, and he tries to release a good amount of his art for free on his DA but keep patron exlclusive streamed art to give his patrons something exclusive. He does raffles, every patron gets at least one free request for a fully coloured and shaded pic when joining. He hopes to grow his patreon so he can do drawing full time and produce art, in addition to illustrated stories and provide more free content on his DA. However, he found all his work, including his archive leaked on kemono. It completely killed his motivation and made him feel taken advantage of. He literally slaves away trying to produce content for his contributors while trying to keep his DA active. It's very disheartening when I see his motivation and mood take a dip, especially when people who leak it proclaim to love his art and look forward to his work, but don't give a shit about the artist's actual wellbeing and life, and the effort he goes through to produce art. Sure, loads of people on Kemono like to generalise. 'artists are milking their supporters' 'pirating doesn't harm them' 'content creators are selfish' and all the other excuses people come up with to justify it, but it's just all a lie to make everyone here get a guilt-free kick out of taking someone's art, having no consideration for the artist, while being two-faced and talking about how much you love their content.
Just food for thought.
Seen plenty of obscure artists who censor their public artworks in the most "fuck you" way possible (Patron logos the same size as the nipples) and plenty of small artists with big egos who, if given the option, would vacuum the memory of their artwork from their patrons' brains after one viewing and try to charge them again.
sorry for disappearing for some time and not replying.
continuing on, you're insight is quite interesting about leakers appear because frictionless environment care to explain this one?
for double dip yeah it is a questionable one, i mean damn holy fuck just how much they want to milk their follower
>>4555>about leakers appear because frictionless environment care to explain this one?
Businesses that sell material goods have to deal with things like entry costs, regulations, distribution issues, shrinkage (the loss of inventory that can be attributed to factors such as employee theft, shoplifting, administrative error, vendor fraud, damage, etc), and obtaining materials. All those things create a certain amount of friction.
There is a far less friction when it comes to digital artists. Entry costs, regulation, and the cost to reproduce/distribute are extremely low. Because the cost to distribute is so low its easy for others to do so.
One of the many reasons I do not feel any sympathy for artists is they don't have to deal with things that businesses that sale material goods do like having to eat tangible losses from things such as product not selling (inventory or getting rid of something can be more expensive than people think) and things are so heavily weighted in their favor concern about piracy feels like a joke.
This guy >>4282
is right about artists being dumb for not doing external/private distro if they are that concerned about leaking or if only to better milk their followers. The "pay to pay" model on onlyfans became popular because it allows people to milk more out of their followers.
In the end it has caused me to dislike numerous creators so strongly I don't even want their work for free and dislike even giving them exposure that comes with sharing their stuff because it indirectly supports them.
i see interesting when you say it like that it make sense why leakers show up
>I think their impact is overblown though I have no hard evidence because despite all the moaning about sites like this many artist seem to have little problem raking in cash. Also artists have several advantages they can exploit like the power of fandom to keep them afloat.
this one is also interesting because you say there is barely any damage done to artist despite this place exist, any example or evidence to be shown as explanation?
and as for the power of fandom this one is a very stranger concept to me since i was never a part of any fandom i dont quite understand how fandom works to begin with, i mean if it's about a fans of actor/actress or music band i understand, but digital artist? is such thing possible? considering they are just someone who produce a product of a niche and hidden from public view
>>4638>you say there is barely any damage done to artist despite this place exist, any example or evidence to be shown as explanation?
Neither those that believe piracy is killing artists or those like me who believe its effects are overblown to some degree have any hard evidence. So its mostly if not entirely speculation.
Seeing creators both big and small growing larger and larger despite all the piracy it makes me skeptical of how big of a negative effect it has.
When it comes to fandom it can be built around nearly anything. I've seen people have intense arguments about niche keyboards that they support. The core idea of the "1000 fans" theory (see https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/
) is you don't need to make it big to make enough money to live off your work, all you need is a bunch of devoted fans.
Creators are able to make a decent living without even hitting 1000 subs because they have a large enough number of subs who will for the most part uncritically give them money. I know one creator who hasn't made a single post in a whole month with no update about what is going on and they still have the same amount of patreons.
i see so no one have hard evidence about negative effect of this place.
as for the 1000 fans theory it is a very interesting theory i dare say, the core idea of this theory is that any content creator trying to keep close all die hard fans that willing to follow unconditionally, as a mean to keep all the incoming money stable and reach certain target. This is very surprising theory, that i would have never guess it actually exist
i guess that is all for the curiosity that i have for now.
and thank you anonymous person for answering my various question
To me personally,It is annoying me more and more how many artists are handling their art and their fans. They don't know how it really shits me to see that some hide 90% of their stuff behind a paywall and they are pulling it out of you. And so they dare to be outraged when things are leaked to them? Fuck the hell out of them if that's the case.
PD: I came from arguing with a moron paheal moderator and needed to vent.
Rich fans with enough income (or rich enough parents) will always pay, even when they could pirate. But poor fans who can't afford to spend $12+/m on ONE artist let alone ALL their faves will pirate. We wouldn't need to pirate if the artists didn't block us out, saying "fuck all you poor fans", but piracy is the option we have left, so thats what we're gonna do. I remember years back things were much better: Paywall sites weren't really a thing and artist made money from commissions. You could tell they were still making plenty of money too because commissions were expensive and slots were always taken (you had long waiting lists). Once sites like Paytreon became "the new way", piracy stepped in. Because it was invited!
I personally find it offensive that many artists who started from scratch, once they discovered patreon or fanbox, have literally completely abandoned their general fans and only release things for the "privileged". I'm not even going to pay $ 5 to see porn drawings that in the end I will not see again for a long time, because if I were only to follow 1 artist it would not be much problem, but let's see, let's add like 4 artists and it would not be $ 5 now 20 $.
I'm an artist who is just beginning and I would never treat my public like that, because I insist, I find it rude to see people who started like me and now they start screaming and DMCA if they filter their art, as if those assholes felt that not even the ground they walk on deserves them. I know many people like that and it only gives me reasons to improve and one day have the opportunity to see that it is not necessary to treat your audience like shit to earn money and have followers.
I encourage people like you everyday anon. Keep getting better, and i hope you get so good you can become one of the great artists that didn't need paywalls to become successful
Fucking same - it's literally the same as the artists who used to do requests and now they got "good enough" to get commissions and now they think they can ignore their audience of fans requesting things to cater to privileged people who'll pay them instead?
Not all people can afford commissions, and we shouldn't be forced to pay just to get an artist to draw stuff that they would be drawing for free anyway.
Can't stress this enough. Keep hollering it in the "issues/bug report" thread, or the telegram, or on TV & radio.
We need to get it fully to the devs attention how essential it is to get Shared Files back.
Agreed i have alot of artists who just paywalled all their shit so their kemono page is drier then my grandmother's pussy. Shared files i believe is going to be worked on once the IRL purge goes through. THough take that statement with a grain of salt
Shared files is finally back now. The upload often fails upto 6 times before it finally works, and trying to upload anything bigger than 100mb almost always fails but I've been uploading stuff since lastnight, and just waiting for the admin to make it more stable so I can upload the bigger stuff.
My problem with paytreon and similars is being ABSOLUTE PAYWALLS.
I understand drawers need money and some uses this plataforms like ¨Hey you like my works, for a fee you can see them before other people, have access to WIPS, and the HD version¨ and they release a SD to the public, that´s the FEW saddly, the mayority is just like ¨Hey, I make a fanart of a popular characters, if you want too see it PAY¨
You gotta laugh at these artists who come out of nowhere with an absolute paywall and expect people to pony up without even knowing if they are competent at drawing genitals.
You need to pay your dues to the art community before you can hold the nudes for ransom.
Seems like a good few artists are switching to paysites that "aren't scrapable" (?) now too. EG Gumroad and another one, I forgot the name. Some of these artists are greedy as hell too. The same artist will split his content across 2-3 different subscription paysites (to cheekily rake in 2-3x extra cash). Some of them "cleverly" use different names to try and hide their greed campaigns (EG Vkorg AKA Ganto18, same guy ffs…) but some of them are so full of it they just use the same name (EG BySpoon). I really miss the "Deviantart, HentaiFoundry, FurAffinity" days before everyone became supremely greed corrupted :(
I feel that anon. When everyone sat around the internet roasting each others art and also were the art kitties couldn't handle if their art got criticized :(. Now a days we have to jump across 3 thousand different paywall sites, discord, twitter, and everything else that ISNT a fucking art gallery to find the artists art. Its fucking tiring and depressing work.
>>6225>everything else that ISNT a fucking art gallery
For whatever reasons many artists do not have galleries anymore. I'm not sure why so many artists flock to twitter because that it is terrible for discoverability compared to places like pixiv or hentai foundry, viewing someone's old work, or discussion. I'm never figured out what benefit twitter offers or why some artists feel like they are forced to make one.
Hello. I'm the same anonymous who wrote in >>5291
I do not know the stupidity that I have seen in many fellow artists to create a Twitter. I personally hate that social network, because I had very bad experiences and it was fighting every day With stupid right-wing idiots, LGBT hypocrites, And people who claim to be "great NSFW artists" and put their art like on 2 paywalls and almost force you to pay them to see them. Most of them think that there they will be able to catch followers and potential clients. But knowing the fame that Twitter has, I don't think any of you like making money with trash people Like the one that abounds there.
Maybe its because I don't have/want a Twitter account but I agree, it seems like a terrible site to treat as an art house gallery or portfolio (finding and browsing 1 artists pics is extremely longwinded & awkward). Yet almost every artist uses Twitter. I want to see ONE artists pics but I have to sift through a huge list with 50 other artists pics mixed in (why do they even do that!?). I don't understand why you can't just click "gallery" and then it shows me JUST the pics by the artist who's Twitter I'm actually on; and not all his artist friends and similar artists all jumbled together… I hate Twitter lol.
Ignore the word "house" lol, my tablet autocorrect (auto-incorrect) strikes again…
It's not even that complicated.
These hacks all have other jobs - it's literally just greed asking to be paid, which is why sites like this will always pop up to correct the greed.
Trust me, there's some artists out there who think they can make this their full time career. I've even seen some with that on their site banners as a mission statement.
They are in for a rude awakening.
I'm bringing this into attention since although this new method is simple, it can be a bit difficult for us to get posts afterwards.
So, to make things short. According to the thread link above, some artists (who probably already know about kemono.party) has a new method of combatting kemono's scrapper, by putting the download link(s) of their contents in the comments.
This can be a big difficulty, since until now, kemono still doesn't have any features to import comments from a post, neither automatically and or manually.
Here hoping the admins and mods would do something about this right away.
Yea this will need to be addressed sooner or later because give it time, and you can bet your sexy arse that every shark-artist and their cousin will be following suit (as logic would dictate!).
Only "solution" I can think of ATM is for the leaker (the guy importing the posts) to manually DL the content from the comment, then import via "FILE UPLOAD". If its a filehost with a password, and the PW is in comments, I guess all we can do ATM is drop a link to the archive in the "archive thread" and put PW underneath it.
>They are in for a rude awakening.
Minimum wage in UK (enough to "only just" cover "the cost of living", IE "by yourself") is just over a grand a month, and thats before tax. So to earn the same money from monthly Paytreon dole, you'd have to be popular as fuck.
If you're getting less than £1,000 p/m on Paytreon, then good luck "paying the bills, buying food & clothes, paying rent etc". Its not gonna happen since you can't "properly" live on much less. If you live in the family home and your only expenses are your own luxuries, then yea you could be rolling in it, but living alone or with a partner &/or kid to support (like a lot of these artists seem to imply)? No, you'd be in financial hot water quicker than it takes to boil a kettle.
It's even worse in the states. If you wanna live in the safe part of a major coastal city and are making less than 70,000 a year, you're gonna have a bad time. Not just because the local gov can't keep their hands out of your pocket for problems that never get fixed (but that's a whole 'nother topic)
i remember back then when YP saved the comments
also since there are shared files why not allow ghost commenting so we can discuss about the creator (and ghost replying to patreon comments)>>7500
lol nice GET>>7505
i know PH is a huge shithole (based on what others said) but im glad i wasn't born in ameriburger or worse ching chong
This guy sends passwords to his archives privately, uploads samples to ex-hentai and when he was called out for his shillery and faggotry threw a hissy fit threw his second account lmao. Shame his method actually works since I can't find his stuff online for free, even on kemono.
Welcome to what happens when contributors don't use "Shared Files / Upload File" so all they scrape is just useless "dummy/billboard/placeholder" posts. With some artists the majority of posts are like this, just because the person leaking doesn't know WTF they're doing. This same problem plagued YP. Tonnes of people contributing but maybe only 7 of them ever learned how & why to use Shared Files. Yet its so simple, all you have to bloody do is just click [upload file] and then upload the flipping file.
If Shared Files actually worked stuff would get uploaded
if you actually looked hard enough you’d see that the scraper imports his art packs which he posts every so often compiling the last couple months of exclusive stuff from his discord too
It’s not all banners
lol welcome to kemono
enjoy your text posts!
My tastes are, to put it simply, rather niche, so the list of artists I'm keeping track of on here is minimal. This was the first one I came across that had this issue.>>7668
I skimmed through it so I didn't notice these, thank you anon
Agreed, it seems that people on this sight of the attention span of a gold fish. Unless a button is flashing in neon rainbows with explicit instruction to click on it saying "UPLOAD HERE IF YOUR ARTIST DOESN'T POST ON PATREON. THE UPLOAD MUST BE MANUAL IF YOU ARE TO GET THE POST" really goes to show that everyone is stupid…on every level, the pirators the artists. Humanity is just one big vat of dumb with exceptions every now and then.
Exactly… As an alien (not an illegal immigrant) I find humans fucking hilarious. Thats why we don't invade your stupid planet of the idiots. There'd be nothing to laugh at anymore. Your species can't even press [upload file] or get along with eachother so to us you are all just funny little animals. And after 4 millennia you humans still believe in god, like kids who haven't grown up yet so they still believe in Santa & the Tooth Fairy. The people who worked out that "god" is just us aliens, you label them tinfoil hat wack jobs… Oh you humans are adorable! Never change! Anyway pathetic humans, I've gotta go, my wife with 12 arms is shouting at me, I need to fix the washing machine.
They have more reasons than that, though.
A lot of artists don't want their stuff on e621 because they think that's where art "thieves" get stuff.
They think this because most social media accounts and subreddits dedicated almost entirely to reposting furry art source back almost always to the e621 link.
Which is stupid, because what actually happens is that they most likely found the stuff elsewhere and only linked e621 because that's the place where you're more likely to find info -like who the author is- on any furry picture. And because if the social media account of the artist is for whatever reason unavailable, people can still find the e621 post. And in the e621 post, they'll find the link to the real source anyway.
Another reason is that they don't want e621 to "steal" their precious clout (in the same way they think that posting the picture to r/yiff is art theft). Because they have completely confused social media high scores with actual career success. These people are also the ones who get pissy when someone more popular than them QRTs their post or get mad at other artists for "working for free" or "underpricing" their commissions; or who make transformative works of someone else's IP without permission, but then yell kys to people doing transformative work of their own fanart by using it for RPing or whatever (and then they still complain when hasbro or gamefreak DMCA's them).
Overall, it does seem that people on the DNP are just really fragile and egocentric and have fallen in love with the system that oppresses them.